- This topic has 105 replies, 23 voices, and was last updated 9 years, 1 month ago by JoB.
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November 15, 2016 at 9:16 pm #865131
captainDaveParticipantJoB: it would be helpful if you got over your bigoted racism against white males. Nothing in the constitution supports your notions. It seems that “domestic tranquility” is being disturbed by rioting leftists that are not getting the free stuff they want. With all the wealthy elite that were behind Hillary, how in the world did you conclude that she would deliver anything more than basic subsistence for the masses? Hillary was all about the enriching the privileged.
November 15, 2016 at 10:21 pm #865140
miwsParticipantWow, in all the years I’ve known JoB, and that she’s been a friend, I’ve never seen or heard her display any racism directed to anyone, let alone white males, one of which I am.
You’ve sunk to a new low, Captain. Now that you’re getting your guy in the White House, and all of his corporate kiss-ass buddies in his cabinet (not to mention more of the same as the majority in the House and Senate), maybe it’s time to put your boat a tractor-trailer rig and find a nice big lake or river in one of those red states to sail it on.
Mike
November 15, 2016 at 11:32 pm #865143
captainDaveParticipantmiws: Perhaps you are not capable of reading previous posts of JoB? You and others here have repetitively told me to leave Seattle. My family has been here for 150 years, so that is not going to happen without a fight. Your verbal thuggery isn’t going to cleans your neighborhood of alternative viewpoints. Do you not see the irony of your intolerant “progressive” ideology? Perhaps when you do, it will become apparent to you why your gal shattered the Democrat party instead of the glass ceiling.
November 16, 2016 at 12:19 am #865149
JanSParticipantdamn, Dave…can you not get through even one post without insulting someone? Your rudeness towards people on this forum simply doesn’t quit…(Perhaps you are not capable of reading )
but we know you don’t give a good goddamn!
and, frankly , from the way you talk you are just as intolerant
pot——>black
November 16, 2016 at 12:26 am #865151
JanSParticipantand…that brings up another question…can there actually be “white racism” against white males who think that they are far superior to white women…?
November 16, 2016 at 5:20 am #865157
miwsParticipantNovember 16, 2016 at 5:40 am #865158
redblackParticipantdave: sawant is not a member of the democratic party. so how is the democratic party connected to the protests?
even if sawant was a member of the democratic party, i saw nowhere in your KIRO link that indicated she was inciting riots. all i saw was a poorly-written and edited story.
fail.
and i, for one, don’t want you to leave and never told you to. i just suggested that you might be more comfortable in one of those states that receives all of the federal tax assistance that the affluent liberal cities provide. i’m glad that you’re making a living in our little socialist democratic burg.
November 16, 2016 at 10:29 am #865189
JoBParticipantCaptain dave
i have nothing against white males
some of my best friends are white men ;-)what i have a problem with is the priority given to white males at the expense of everyone else
that word equality… that’s what it means.. nobody gets a place in line ahead of anyone else simply because of their gender, color, religious affiliation, property ownership or ethnic background.
i am not naive.. i know that those with resources will always have more advantages than the rest.. but when you and i have the same resources i honestly believe that i should have the same opportunities as you.. and that’s clearly not the case.
funny.. one statistic nobody seems to contest in this election is that the only group of males that voted for Hillary were those under 40.. those most impacted by the polices that drove the last economic collapse and piled a mountain of debt on our young people.
when they asked “what’s in it for me” they clearly got that making America great was little more than an empty slogan designed to fool the white American male into thinking that their world could be reconstructed with the promise it held when they were younger.
Those young guys never had that promise… so it was far easier for them to contemplate the world as it is.. not as it might have been.
The trouble is that those who prioritized what was in it for them over the common good only succeeded in lowering their own standard of living.
Women’s and minorities wages didn’t raise.. white male wages fell to tighten the gap :(
Expecting the people who benefited from outsourcing all of those jobs and from closing that wage gap in the manner most harmful to America’s middle class to change that is foolish..
but they covered it in all kinds of pretty rhetoric and you bought it.
all you have to do is take a good look at history to realize that you won’t feel smug long..
November 16, 2016 at 11:38 am #865195
JTBParticipantWhy do you all pretend it’s possible to have an intelligent conversation with someone who considers a bias against white males to constitute “racism?” He doesn’t know what he is talking about beyond reciting the same old screeds about the socialist Seattle city government and liberals generally. He is taking you for a ride.
November 16, 2016 at 12:11 pm #865205
miwsParticipantI know, JTB. As you can tell, I usually don’t get into these political discussions, except maybe to make a data point, and in some of those cases a link citing it, but then I get chewed out for linking to Snopes. Other times I post, it may be just to make a mildly snarky comment.
Last night, though, I had just finally had it. Granted, I was tired, and right after making the post I logged off and went to bed. The fact that I was tired being said, I stand by my comment.
I really have to refrain from the desire to comment on the political threads, whether to “argue”, or snark. I got into that four years ago, during the last presidential election season, and particularly with one poster, no longer posting here, that seemed to believe about the same as, and have the same overall attitude as the Captain.
Civil, logical arguments were pointless. snapping back at the person may have been momentarily satisfying, but then I’d feel bad. So, I pretty much resorted to only snarking, sometimes rather heavily. as others had resorted to doing after their own attempts at civil and logical arguments, many of their’s, frankly, put much more eloquently than mine.
Thing is, I as at least a couple other folks here had met this person in person several times. Sure, the person was gruff but had displayed some generosity that I and several others benefitted from. Similarly, a couple of my friends that have met the Captain in person and partaking on at least one of his cruises have said he’s a good guy/nice guy. They’ve told him that, here, on the Forums.
At some point four years ago, I’d finally had enough of posting angry and snarky comments. It’s not who I truly am in my heart. So, for my own mental health, I stopped. With my chronic physical health issues, I don’t need to add mental stress to the equation.
I try to treat people the way I like to be treated. Hell, sometimes I probably treat them better than they have treated me after they have displayed some nastiness toward me. But, everybody has their breaking point. And I had hit mine last night.
Mike
November 16, 2016 at 12:42 pm #865207
JoBParticipantJTB
we can not allow people like Captain Dave to be the last wordand. i would point out that protesting inequality among the sexes is not the same as having a bias against white males. if i have a bias at all it is against the privilege given white males in our society and against the way some men think that privilege somehow grants them permission to treat women as second class citizens..
what i find most appalling is that most of them don’t even realize they are doing it because they think that is how you are supposed to talk to and treat women..
November 16, 2016 at 1:57 pm #865216
metrognomeParticipantactually, Hillary won the popular vote by nearly 1,000,000 votes (ballots are still being tabulated in some blue states, so this total will likely rise. There is a widely cited website that reports La Donald won the popular vote, but it’s fake.) The only way the last 2 R’s, Bush43 (remember him?) in 2000 and La Donald, got in the White House was by Electoral College votes. Plus some gerrymandering and reducing voting availability for minorities.
If you were boarding a plane for a transoceanic flight, would you want a flight crew that had never seen a plane before? It seems that ‘we’ have elected a pig in a poke. Or, more aptly, a Trump in a tower. That fact alone has made America the laughing stock of the universe (those noises you hear in the dark of night are aliens in their UFO’s laughing their rear ends off … if they have rear ends.) Buckle up, folks, it’s gonna be a bumpy ride for the next 2 years.
miws, I sympathize with your dilemma and have made a similar decision for similar reasons. I’ve decided to come back for a while to see if I can find a balance. I’ve always found your comments to be thoughtful and well-considered. I hope you decide to continue to contribute, but I will support your decision if you opt out.
November 16, 2016 at 2:01 pm #865218
JanSParticipantJTB….to be annoying?
November 16, 2016 at 3:12 pm #865232
TanDLParticipantSorry Mike.. I just can’t support any withdrawal from blog postings that you might be contemplating for very selfish reasons, I’m sure because I believe that your posts are the balance we need when threads go nuts: whether snark, or humor or serious goodness, there are more people than you might think who read your postings and appreciate their balance, even if they don’t respond to you. So please don’t go away or let the (insert any word you like here) get you down. :)
A recent article caught my eye. I posted its link on a different forum topic but its relevance to these political threads keeps running through my mind. It was written by a man who talks about how his grandfather dealt with stressful political winds that swept through Austria in the 1930s. Here’s a cut taken from that article, with a beginning tag line by the author that states, “Historical analogies are always flawed, but some moral principles shine eternal”
“Refuse to accept what’s going on as the new normal. Not now, not ever. In the months and years to come, decisions will be made that may strike you as perfectly sound, appointments announced that are inspired, and policies enacted you may even like. Friends and pundits will reach out to you and, invoking nuance, urge you to admit that there’s really nothing to fear, that things are more complex, that nothing is ever black or white. It’s a perfectly sound argument, of course, but it’s also dead wrong: This isn’t about policy or appointments or even about outcomes. This isn’t a political contest—it’s a moral crisis. When an inexperienced, thin-skinned demagogue rides into office by explaining away immensely complex problems while arguing that our national glory demands we strip millions of their dignity or their rights, our only duty is to resist by whatever means permitted us by law. The demagogue may boost the economy, sign beneficial treaties, and mend our ailing institutions, but his success can never be ours. Our greatness, to use a tired but true phrase, depends on our goodness, and to succeed, we must demand that our commander in chief come as close as is possible to reflecting the light of that goodness. There’s no point indulging in the kind of needlessly complex thinking that so often plagues the intelligent and the well-informed. There’s no room for reading tea leaves, for calculations or projections or clever takes. The only thing that matters now is the simple moral truth: This isn’t right. As long as we never forget that, we can never lose”
By Liel LeibovitzSoldier on Mike. You make a difference and your goodness is obvious!
- This reply was modified 9 years, 1 month ago by TanDL.
November 16, 2016 at 3:31 pm #865236
JKBParticipantWhy does gerrymandering keep coming up in an anti-Trump discussion? We don’t revise state boundaries.
November 16, 2016 at 3:36 pm #865237
JTBParticipantJoB, yes, that was sloppy on my part. I intended to refer to what I think cD had in mind, namely “sexism” when he said “racism.” I didn’t intend to suggest I agree with that notion or that it applies to what you put forward.
I understand your concern about leaving the last word to cD, but when it’s obvious he’s only ranting and becoming irrational, it seems to me that anyone taken in by the ranting is beyond absorbing a rational critique. Now drop your racist, pc, socialist, man-hating ways and be a nice girl, will ya? God, I hope not, not now, not ever.
November 16, 2016 at 3:37 pm #865238
miwsParticipantThanks for the kind words, TanDL!
Just to clarify; I’m not stepping away from the Forums entirely, sorry for any confusion. I’m just going to step away from the political ones, which I haven’t been participating in much anyway in the last four years.
Thanks for that article too. I read it on the other thread and shared it on FB.
Mike
November 16, 2016 at 5:12 pm #865252
redblackParticipantJKB: because redistricting around liberal precincts in urban areas siphons state electoral votes, and tilts seemingly sane states (like pennsylvania or michigan) to the right.
i don’t have any anecdotal evidence about this election, but it’s been going on for decades.
it’s a simple fact that 70% or more of the u.s. lives in urban areas, and that those areas are mostly liberal. gerrymandering shifts a state’s voting weight to rural and conservative areas disproportionately.
don’t get me wrong: there should be some balance, and fair treatment for rural areas. i don’t want to make them submit to policies that don’t concern them. highway 99 and bertha come to mind.
but the GOP has turned gerrymandering into an art form. if you look closely, you’ll notice that they throw tons of money toward elections when it comes time to vote for who controls precinct districting.
and washington has had a republican secretary of state like forever. they’ve been busy.
November 16, 2016 at 5:16 pm #865254
redblackParticipanti’ve met mike. he’s a solid guy, and very kind.
also, well… TanDL said it as well as anyone could.
November 16, 2016 at 5:57 pm #865263
miwsParticipantNovember 16, 2016 at 6:29 pm #865268
JKBParticipantRedblack, perhaps you weren’t paying attention. My question concerns the Presidential election, in which most states are winner-take-all.
Also, I’m sure the nice people in PA and MI appreciate your describing their choice as insane.
Your post describes gerrymandering as a GOP exercise. Really, do you think the Dems don’t take advantage too, whenever they can?
November 16, 2016 at 9:04 pm #865296
redblackParticipantlike i said, this has been going on for decades, and it has yet to benefit the democratic party.
in order to win states other than maine and nebraska, a candidate has to win a majority of precincts in a majority of counties, right? if you draw the lines cleverly, you isolate and reduce the number of liberal precincts.
precincts and county districting are the basis of the electoral system.
and my attention span is just fine. thanks for inquiring, all the same.
perhaps the topic is too complex?
- This reply was modified 9 years, 1 month ago by redblack.
November 17, 2016 at 1:31 am #865326
JanSParticipantJKB…you did , and do realize that gerrymandering is not about changing the lines of the states…right? Tell me you knew that…because from what you said above, you don’t actually know what it is…is that true? Should we be dumbfounded?
November 17, 2016 at 5:25 am #865331
JKBParticipantJanS, do you have anything useful to say?
November 17, 2016 at 7:22 am #865342
JoBParticipantJKB
I have something useful to say..
those winner take all states .. well the outcome wasn’t as clear as you make it out to be.i am using this link because it contains actual numbers that should concern you.. as a citizen who i would assume is concerned about the validity of our voting process
http://freakoutnation.com/2016/11/experts-republicans-stole-this-election-details/
walk past the source to read the data.. and then source that data for yourself
if this doesn’t concern you then you clearly don’t have anything useful to say. -
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