FOLLOWUP: Alki/Harbor residents go to City Hall to show support for ‘racing zone’ speed cameras

Half a dozen Alki-area residents told city councilmembers today that they support a proposal that would be a ‘first step” toward automated speed cameras on three streets that would be designated as “racing zones.” We first reported last week on the proposal sponsored by West Seattle/South Park Councilmember Lisa Herbold and co-sponsored by Councilmember Alex Pedersen. Today the Transportation and Public Utilities Committee, chaired by Pedersen, got its first look at the proposal – just a briefing, not a vote; you can see it in the video above, starting 47 minutes into the meeting. This proposal would align city code with state authorization for additional uses of automated enforcement cameras and would designate certain city streets as “racing zones” eligible for them.

The supporters comprised the entirety of commenter turnout for the meeting – five in person at City Hall, one by phone, speaking right at the meeting’s start. The in-person comments were led by Mike Gain, one of the leaders of an Alki/Harbor Avenues resident group that, as he told the councilmembers, has been working with city reps for months on solutions to street disorder including racing/speeding. He said cameras would be a “safety tool” and would be “incredible” to get. Other speakers talked about the racing and stunt driving they see regularly, and the dangers it poses, along with the noise.

The briefing yielded little new information beyond what we previewed here last night, aside from stressing that if cameras are eventually deployed, state law requires half the revenue from citations to go to the state, for the Cooper Jones Active Transportation Safety Account.

What was not discussed, because it’s still several steps down the potential path to camera installation, is where they would be used and how they would be used. Even if this bill is passed, it wouldn’t happen fast – an equity analysis is required, and then SDOT and SPD would have to come up with an implementation plan, and the mayor would be expected to specify funding. An already-authorized plan to double the number of school-zone speed cameras around the city is still in the planning stage.

By the time this committee votes on the “first step,” the list of potential “racing zones” around the city will likely be longer than the initial six (Alki, Harbor, West Marginal, plus three in Northeast Seattle) – during the briefing, Councilmember Dan Strauss, whose district includes Ballard, said he intended to propose two streets including Seaview from the Ballard Locks to Golden Gardens, and Pedersen said he expected other proposals. July 6th is the date he set for that; the committee could vote on the idea July 18th. A full council vote would follow that. How long the subsequent steps would take after that – the time that would elapse before potential camera installation – too soon to say.

25 Replies to "FOLLOWUP: Alki/Harbor residents go to City Hall to show support for 'racing zone' speed cameras"

  • 22blades June 21, 2023 (4:12 am)

    I think all parties need to look for concrete data on the efficacy of cameras before throwing money at the problem. Are cameras effective in deterrence for the issues? Is speeding, partying or exhibition driving (donughts) the real problem? I’m really not a fan of throwing tech at problems. I think too often a lazy, “cost effective” solution.

  • froggy14 June 21, 2023 (6:39 am)

    How would speed cameras help when the “racers” and “stunt’ers”  have either removed or covered their license plates?  I have witnessed many of these “special” cars, coming/going on beautiful days and evenings, on WMW, WS Bridge, Harbor Ave, Alki Ave and Beach Drive.  I don’t use Admiral Way often enough, to know if many cut through that area.

  • Ella June 21, 2023 (7:22 am)

    I understand it’s unincorporated King county, but it would be great if 26th Ave SW were to be considered as one of the “racing zones”. The 30mph signs are a joke at this point, and folks pass other cars by going into the oncoming lane daily—very dangerous as there is a school just down the street. 

    • WSB June 21, 2023 (11:07 am)

      The King County Council would be your representatives to take that up with. Joe McDermott till year’s end, then whoever gets elected in November.

    • Rhonda June 21, 2023 (11:53 am)

      No, thanks. We take 26th SW to come and go from Arbor Heights to Westwood Village, Roxbury, and Barton multiple times a day. I don’t want my motoring family members to be under government surveillance traveling back and forth from Big 5, Marshalls, and Target.

      • Another One June 21, 2023 (4:33 pm)

        Just the corporate surveillance at Big 5, Marshalls, and Target. 

        • Rhonda June 21, 2023 (6:27 pm)

          Corporate security surveillance isn’t punitive, Authoritarian, and on public property we all own and pay taxes for.

          • CAM June 22, 2023 (2:25 pm)

            Says the person who has advertised themselves as a public government employee for an agency traditionally fitting into the authoritarian, surveiling, and punitive descriptions.  

  • Alki resident June 21, 2023 (8:32 am)

    An “equity analysis”?! Come on. If you speed- you get a ticket. That’s equitable.  But yet we need another handout to the activist industrial complex. Just do it already! Seattle is such a mess, and yet all they can seem to do is “study” problems instead of fix them. We need new leadership! 

    • WestSeattleBadTakes June 21, 2023 (12:05 pm)

      Considering how a choice will impact people is unnecessary? Is this what we’re going for now?

    • Gaslit June 21, 2023 (4:32 pm)

      Is there an actual problem here? There is a police force that could be present in the areas that this alleged racing is happening and it would stop immediately. Yes, too government for sure, but Alki residents who think that they are entitled to anything beyond what is offered in every other neighborhood is just as absurd. Move to Mercer Island, it’s everything you want. 

      • Alki resident June 22, 2023 (8:32 am)

        You obviously do not understand how big of a problem and how dangerous the racing is on and around Alki. Yes- there is a big problem. That’s why this is being discussed. There are not enough cops in Seattle to have a meaningful presence enough to stop the behavior. And People aren’t showing up in droves to show off their racing skills and party in other residential neighborhoods like they do on Alki. It’s a false equivalence. You clearly don’t go down to Alki in the summer, otherwise you would know. 

    • Another One June 21, 2023 (6:56 pm)

      This is a great example of the difference between “equitable” and “equal”. You speed, you pay a ticket, yes that’s equal treatment. If you’re poor or of moderate means, a speeding ticket really stings. It can mean you have to choose to pay the ticket or pay another bill. And if you don’t pay the ticket because you choose food or utilities, your license can get suspended, and if you need the car to get to work and you can’t drive… there’s big consequences here. On the other hand when you’re rich, a speeding ticket means absolutely nothing to your budget. Higher insurance? By what, a couple thousand dollars? Big whoop. Rich people basically can pay a “toll” to speed, and if it’s only a traffic camera, then it doesn’t even cost their valuable time for a traffic stop. If they’re rich enough to have a personal assistant, they may never even know they got caught. Thus “equal” doesn’t mean “equitable.” In this situation, given that it’s a low-speed area and what they’re aiming to stop is racers, the equitable considerations are probably lower. In any case, it’s a good idea to look at the fines that are imposed for infractions and how they affect each layer of society. In Finland, the fines for speeding correlate to your income, so the fines actually affect everyone *equally*. 

  • Chemist June 21, 2023 (11:10 am)

    Thanks for posting the video.  It was good to hear that the councilmembers are also hearing the objection from Whose Streets? Our Streets, a partner of Seattle Neighborhood Greenways that recently objected to the expansion of school speed zone cameras in Seattle.  One thing their group suggested was staggered fines depending on the severity of school zone speeding, so I think they’d obviously be concerned about cameras setup to combat street racing that’s usually at night that end up issuing 95% of tickets to daytime drivers exceeding the speed limit by 5-10 mph.  I think anti-racing cameras should be restricted to operating only during evening hours and have a trigger threshold appropriate to racing, like at least 15 mph over the posted speed limit.  I’m not one to speed excessively and would not get a ticket, but I have lived near one of the city’s established red light cameras on N 85th and Aurora in the past.  That camera system would very frequently flash in the dark of night, even with no obvious violation occurring but maybe to evaluate that everyone had stopped at the intersection.  It was quite uncomfortable and unsafe to have an automated camera flashing away your night vision, even temporarily, when everything seemed safe and uneventful.  I think it was required to get “before and after” images as a part of the traffic light’s cycle.  Anyone supporting these cameras based on their experience with school zone cameras that only operate during the day should think more about how obnoxious they can be to legal drivers at night.

  • Marty2 June 21, 2023 (11:30 am)

    Will these cameras allow for ticketing for other unsafe driving behaviors like doing donuts, burnouts, car surfing and other unsafe behaviors that can be done without actually speeding?  If not, then this is a waste of time and money.

  • anonyme June 21, 2023 (11:38 am)

    Yet another study and another meaningless esoteric category.  Speeding is a problem.  Install traffic cameras on arterials and other problem areas and just ENFORCE.THE.LAW.  Seattle spends countless dollars and hours and studies and meetings and surveys, etc., etc., etc. trying to find the most convoluted means to avoid that one, simple obligation.

  • NAdmiralRes June 21, 2023 (2:56 pm)

    I’m skeptical that speeding money on costly speed cameras to reduce what’s essentially street racing would reduce the problem. These are individuals who know it’s against the law to drive recklessly yet still do. Anyone who things they will willingly pay speed camera tickets that they receive in the mail are being incredibly ignorant and naive. The tickets that will get paid will be by those who are mostly law abiding citizens who were accidentally going a few miles over the speed limit and not those who recklessly drive (per state law). This money could be spent more effectively. Let’s see day first, How many individuals caught on current Seattle speed cameras speeding 15-20mph over the limit end up actually paying their tickets? Also license plates can be covered, many speeding may be in stolen vehicles and if these cameras are ever installed they should only be for 10+ mph over the posted limits. Law breaking individuals aren’t going to willingly pay a ticket they get in the mail and therefore won’t stop speeding in listed zones due to a costly installation of a speed camera. We need more police overall and a larger traffic police division who will enforce speed laws and impound vehicles without plates, those that are caught reckless driving, etc 

  • Les June 21, 2023 (5:12 pm)

    Public drug use and overdose deaths are the real problem that Seattle needs to resolve or reduce  long before even contemplating  more traffic cameras. If this race zone camera idea ever comes to fruition I will add a bike rack to the rear of my vehicle that obstructs my rear license plate enough to ensure that I will never receive a speeding ticket for going 31 MPH.

    • Jethro Marx June 21, 2023 (6:06 pm)

      I, too, believe that breaking the law is ok, as long as I feel like I’m really, really right. But with others I like to judge how trustworthy they are by outward appearance.

    • James June 22, 2023 (12:21 pm)

      Public drug use isn’t an issue. It’s addiction that’s an issue. Please do not take away my ability to smoke weed. We just finally got here, dang. I know many users who are fine and functional. The addiction is because they are poor and impoverished and have nothing else to live for. Those people should not be cast to an island. We need to build LOTS of cheap housing. Poverty existed long before oxy and fent were available by Big Pharm.

  • Jay June 21, 2023 (5:40 pm)

     The people hooning are not displaying plates and can’t be caught by cameras.

  • Admiral-2009 June 21, 2023 (10:18 pm)

    Les – agreed.  The Council once again listened to a vocal minority of activists.  The majority of Seattle residents want penalties, or rehab, for open air drug use.

    Regarding the racing zone speed camera’s, it red herring for activist’s to foist the politically set and technically indefensible lowered speed limits on Arterial Streets.  For example WMW was credibly posted at 40 mph for years and without any Traffic Study the City lowered the limit to 30 mph.  The 85th speed, the speed Traffic Engineering Professionals based on extensive data is considered to be reasonable, remained at 45 to 50 mph.  Big Government citing everyday motorists for driving reasonable speeds is not right!

  • Rumbles June 22, 2023 (8:48 am)

    Folks, you are cracking me up! The racers aren’t going to be paying anything for their tickets.

    They will either not have, or will cover their plates. Meanwhile, everyone else will be getting tickets.

    I’m not advocating speeding nor against a real fix for the racing problem, but if you think this will end the racing please explain how so we can all understand.

  • J June 22, 2023 (4:38 pm)

    How can they race with the speed bumps? I find if I go over 20mph it’s horrible! Just put speed bumps along the entire Alki strip?

Sorry, comment time is over.