2 door-to-door alerts: “Come outside” pitch; mystery cause

Two door-to-door alerts to share this afternoon – read on:

From Travis:

We live near the corner of 37th and Charlestown (map). As my girlfriend was opening the front door coming home yesterday a black male, extra large white t-shirt, in his twenties, tried persuading her to come outside so he could talk to her. Fortunately our dog was getting upset with this stranger being on the property and she used it as an excuse to remain inside. He told her he wanted to show her something and later said he was selling something but he needed her to step outside to show her, he was very insistent. His greeting to her was something like, “Yo mama why don’t you come outside for a second.” She said he was quite rude and after she told him no thank you and that she needed to close the door to keep the dog in he made some disparaging remarks. He walked around the corner and while passing the side door he yelled something again and said something about, “you better shut the side door too.” She did and he yelled at her to “F*&# off”. About a month and a half ago we had friends staying at our house and had their car broken into and we have seen here
on the blog about burglars approaching during the day so we are a bit wary of strangers. But this person was rude right off the start and did not have anything to show he was selling something. She called the police to report what happened and she requested they come to check things out. About 15 minutes after she called the police the man walked down our sidewalk again eyeing the door. She called the police and again was told they would stop by. This all happened about 4:00 pm, I got home at 5:30 pm and we left the house about 7:15 pm, but the cops didn’t come, at least not before we left. Just thought we would pass the word on.

Next – Kayle in Admiral e-mailed the report – she and her neighbors couldn’t find out anything about the alleged organization, so they’re hoping you might know: The solicitor was a man who came to the door in North Admiral “soliciting allegedly for Puget Sound Conservation last night around 8:30.” Kayle’s neighbor added, “He came down 54 stairs to our house too, and it seemed strange.” Remember that solicitors are required to have ID and a permit; here’s the city code. Meantime, Kayle and neighbors are hoping to hear from anyone with any idea whether this person was legit.

MB July 28, 2009 (5:32 pm)

Ya, it’s awesome when you call 911 for a totally legitimate reason and are told the cops will come by and you wait, and wait, and wait, and they never show. It’s happened to us a number of times in West Seattle.

37Ray July 28, 2009 (5:34 pm)

“Yo mama why don’t you come outside for a second”…. so I can minister to you on the Lord?

Seems unlikely..

Luke July 28, 2009 (7:11 pm)

These suspicious and sometimes outwardly rude “solicitors” in West Seattle are getting out of control.

I somewhat understand the reason to solicit door to door a few decades ago but now a days there is no reason. It is too easy for a criminal to use the ruse of a solicitor as an excuse to come on our properties and check out our houses, see who lives there, what windows may be open, and what time of the day the occupant is gone.

Then there are the rude solicitors that don’t take no for an answer and flips attitude when the home owner turns them down! I am getting tired of reading of all the scams that these guys are pulling and it is scary to hear of all the break-ins that are occuring after someone solicits at the house.

Thanks to all the people that are sharing their stories though. It is a good reminder to stay alert and watch out for eachother.

kg July 28, 2009 (8:52 pm)

If the t-shirt is down to just above the knees I believe that is T-skirt. Just sayin’

patrick July 28, 2009 (9:05 pm)

The police have time for cross-walk stings, but can’t make time to check this out?

danger July 28, 2009 (9:14 pm)

NEVER open your door to anyone! They can just push their way right in. Even if it is a solicitor. The biggest mistake is trying to be nice. This could have ended very badly. Thanks for mentioning it here though.

37Ray July 28, 2009 (9:48 pm)

I recall reading elsewhere that one impetus of the crosswalk patrol was that more than one of our elected officials’ friends and family have themselves been involved in pedestrian/car accidents lately (on the foot end). Maybe when they start being the ones receiving the harassing solicitor casing for a breakin or some kind of residential assaults or burglaries etc then we will see some stepped up focus on that area of police presence. Both are needed, but I wholeheartedly agree I’d rather be seeing pics of the gang/drug undercovers busting some of these petty crook clowns in WSea than lined up like a bike motorcade at… the rite aid crosswalk.. oh well.. Just lock your stuff people and pay attention to your surroundings at all times. Don’t have to be paranoid but definitely ought to be prepared… just my 2c

alki_2008 July 28, 2009 (10:08 pm)

Regarding the Puget Sound Conservation thing. I had a lady come to my front door last weekend wanting to talk about “saving Puget Sound” (or something like that). I told her I was busy with something and didn’t really have the time to speak with her. She left without any problems. Didn’t pay attention to whether she had ID or not.
.
Not sure if it’s the same organization as Kayle mentioned, but sounds similar. Didn’t catch the exact organization name, but maybe it was for “people for puget sound”? That organization is about conserving/saving Puget Sound.

the dude July 28, 2009 (10:47 pm)

Same guy hit Admiral and 39th. Going door to door -shouting “HEY ANYONE IN THERE” for about 5 minutes. I came out and told him to go away, he said he didn’t have any thing to sell except these magazines -and asked what my problem was! We called the cops but didn’t see any police activity in the area.

Hopefully he didn’t injury someone. I hope he will be picked up before the police have to call medics or the SWAT team.

agreed July 28, 2009 (11:39 pm)

I agree with Luke. We finally got a no soliciting sign. My fear though is that we are hearing more and more criminals use this as a way to con or case a home or the inhabitants. Isn’t there some way that West Seattle can band together to make West Seattle the first no soliciting area in the city? Sounds extreme I am sure. But w/the times we are in I just feel its a matter of time before something terrible happens to someone – and then of course there will be action. Take back the streets!

WSGuy July 29, 2009 (12:23 am)

I would have to agree with Luke that the days of door to door sales are pretty much over. If I want to order something, give to a charity or politician it would be via the net for sure. Seems like it’s almost time for a lock on the gate–sad to say! Maybe the city should charge $2,500 for a 1-day solicitors permit?

WSB, is there any way you can follow up with SPD and find out why this call “fell through the cracks?”

WSB July 29, 2009 (12:54 am)

I hate the word “no” but in this case, pretty much, no. It’s difficult enough – not because of resistance but because of volume of stuff to go through – just to find info on a specific actual crime; to try to trace an actual dispatch would be all but impossible. Not completely impossible, but would require a Herculean amount of effort not just by a journalist but also by people on the police side to go through records. I can tell you the standard thing – life safety calls always come first. I listen to the scanner usually at least several hours a day and often when they’re running around checking out crashes, DV incidents, things in which people are hurt, a call like this would have to wait till someone got free, and they do dispatch “this call’s been holding since …” — TR

jimmy July 29, 2009 (1:10 am)

I’ve had daytime burglars bash down our front door,a year later caught two in the act trying to make off with copper from my backyard,and at least three of my neighbors have been burglarized and robbed,including a truck later recovered.These criminals are studying hard and stepping up their game-in tough economic times they’re just getting more desperate.They’ve tried the fake UPS routine,too(can I use your bathroom?)and are showing more organization,sophistication and planning in carrying out crimes.The police have alot on their plate,and they’re short-handed.They have to deal with alot of disgusting and exhausting calls that wouldn’t make good “reality”TV.I understand the frustration of not having them show up fast when you need them,but at this point it’s up to us and our neighbors to establish good communication and preventative surveillance,also sharing our legal and defense knowledge with one another.

37Ray July 29, 2009 (1:49 am)

“It’s up to us” indeed

Good arguments here for big thick doors with heavy deadbolts and a ruggedized metal bar/screen door (unflattering as they may look, just paint it black, if you’re in a sketchy area, it truly is worth having on your outside door)

Nothing is a sure bet but multiple well executed deterrents can add up when someone is casing a place…

Kmck July 29, 2009 (6:48 am)

Last week I was in my car @ Calif & Morgan and noticed a litle one in the back seat of a small car without a seat belt on and all over the seat…there was a police officer (female) assisting with the traffic…when it was my turn to go I stopped beside her and told her that their was a small child in the back seat of the car still stopped she yelled @ me “what do you expect me to do about it in the middle of the road get moving…I told her that she could stop traffic and give a warning to the man in the car…to me that would be a good reason to stop traffic…huh? da!!!

lina July 29, 2009 (6:55 am)

i work in the environmental restoration field and i have never heard of Puget Sound Conservation. closest thing would for People for Puget Sound and this does not sound like a tactic that they would use to gain support. so this guy definitely sounds sketchy

WSB July 29, 2009 (6:57 am)

To Kmck and any others – Southwest Precinct leaders have told us time and again that they want to hear if you think you haven’t been responded to in the manner you should – there are various ways to do that, from calling the precinct to filing a formal complaint – this is the SPD division that handles the latter.
http://www.seattle.gov/police/OPA/process.htm
.

(And by the way, as you will see on that page, it’s the same place you can suggest a commendation for excellent police work, too.) – TR

kittylove July 29, 2009 (9:49 am)

i realize that the economy is an issue….but i really dont think it is the main/only reason for the increase in crime. it was increasing for awhile (even before the bottom fell out economically).

there is this increased sense of entitlement in this country…why work for something when you can just take it? makes me sick.

WestSeattleDrew July 29, 2009 (10:26 am)

You should have gone inside, put your gun on, and went and talked to him.

Sandy Adams July 29, 2009 (11:18 am)

We live in the Pelly Place neighborhood–47th and Willow. About 7:30 last evening, two young black males rang the doorbell. The one standing in front had dreadlocks and was dressed in black pants and jacket with white shirt. The other also was in black and white. Neat and well groomed. Very polite. Said they were from some organization (I couldn’t understand the name). Called the other guy “my assistant”. I said I wasn’t interested. He then asked if I could give him a bottle of water.
I said I didn’t have any and shut the door. They might have been legit, but these days I trust no one who comes to the door selling anything.

John July 29, 2009 (12:56 pm)

I live in the 40th & Dawson area and I confronted a guy on my front lawn the other night around 11:30. He claimed he was drunk and ‘lost his house.’ I called the police and stayed up until 12:30 but no SPD car came in that time.

CJP July 29, 2009 (1:17 pm)

There are currently scammers out representing the seattle times as well. Asking you where you want your free promotional paper delivered.

EMH July 29, 2009 (1:46 pm)

At 1:30 7/29/09 individuals matching Sandy’s description rang my doorbell. I did not answer the door. My neighbor said they claimed to be affiliated with a job search program. I live near Frontanac and Parshall Pl.

Matt Lider July 29, 2009 (4:33 pm)

I would like to address Kales report about the individual representing ‘Puget Sound Conservation’ and the need for a permit.

I am employed by People For Puget Sound, a local conservation group working to protect and restore Puget Sound. We do have door-to-door canvassers currently working in West Seattle and have been operating this program for four years now in order to engage the community about Puget Sound issues while increasing our support base of members, activists and volunteers. The canvasser Kales referring to was representing our organization.

Per Lina’s post, I hope readers are distinguishing between the two reports above. The first, the rude obnoxious one, was from someone NOT representing People For Puget Sound, the second by someone who was. The issue about Kales is the legitimacy of the group and the need for a permit.

Kales report is correct so far as solicitors require a permit to operate in the city of Seattle. However, the Seattle Code referenced above defines the individual as: {“Residential seller” means any person who initiates contact with consumers at their places of residence for the purpose of selling, attempting to sell, or soliciting appointments or contacts for future
sale of goods or services, and where the consumer is at his/her place of residence when agreement to buy is given.} Representatives of non-profit organizations do not fall in to that category because the interaction is educational, the ‘ask’ is for a donation in the form of a membership, and no goods or services are exchanged in the interaction. Therefore no permit is required.

Seattle is FULL of non-profit canvassing operations, including those representing Sierra Club, WashPIRG, Greenpeace, Save The Children, amongst others. They have been in operation for up to 20 years and have never needed a permit to conduct their work.

There has also been Supreme Court hearings about charitable causes going door-to-door including the following:

In Watchtower Bible and Tract Society v. Village of Stratton, the Court struck down an ordinance that made it a misdemeanor to engage in door-to-door advocacy—religious, political, or commercial—without first registering with the mayor and receiving a permit.1313 “It is offensive to the very notion of a free society,” the Court wrote, “that a citizen must first inform the government of her desire to speak to her neighbors and then obtain a permit to do so.”1314 The ordinance violated the right to anonymity, burdened the freedom of speech of those who hold “religious or patriotic views” that prevent them from applying for a license, and effectively banned “a significant amount of spontaneous speech” that might be engaged in on a holiday or weekend when it was not possible to obtain a permit.

http://supreme.justia.com/constitution/amendment-01/59-door-to-door-solicitation.html

I hope this clears the waters (pardon the pun :p) and if anyone would like more information about canvassing or about the work and mission of People For Puget Sound, visit our website: http://www.pugetsound.org My contact information can also be found there.

(sorry if this posts twice)

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